The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Calling the Members to order.

1. Questions to the Minister for Education

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Dai Lloyd.

Deaf Young People in Education

Dai Lloyd AC: 1. Will the Minister make a statement on the support provided to deaf young people in education in order to improve their chances of employment? OAQ55258

Kirsty Williams AC: Our educational reforms are designed to ensure that all learners with additional learning needs receive the support that they need to access the curriculum, and I believe that this will help equip deaf young people with the skills that they need to reach their full potential.

Dai Lloyd AC: Thank you for that reply, Minister. You will no doubt be aware of the publication of the National Deaf Children's Society's report, 'Deaf Works Everywhere', which seeks to get more deaf young people into work and jobs that inspire them. Unfortunately, many deaf young people believe their career options are limited. With the right support, however, we know that deaf people can work everywhere, yet they are twice as likely to be unemployed as their hearing peers.
In response to the Deaf Works Everywhere campaign, what further action are you prepared to take to ensure better careers support, more work experience and volunteering opportunities, and challenging the expectations of what deaf young people can achieve?

Kirsty Williams AC: Well, you're absolutely right, Dai, in that we should never put any limitations on any of our children and young people because we have a misconception about what they can achieve. Obviously, that is at the heart of our additional learning needs reform programme, to ensure that all children with an additional learning need leave our education system with the qualifications, skills and experience that they will need to go on into further education, or into the world of employment.
I am aware of NDCS's youth advisory board's recent report on young people's experiences of the careers advice across the UK. Here in Wales, we know, and we're actively engaged in a process to reform our careers support assistance, and I will be very keen to work with NDCS Cymru to be a part of that. Our current careers and the world of work framework highlights the need for learning providers to reduce environmental and social barriers to inclusion, and we continue that as part of our reform of our careers and information and advice. Clearly, apprenticeships should not be closed off to any young person who could benefit from that, and, as a result of your question, I'll undertake to work with Ken Skates's department to oversee our apprenticeship programme, to see what more action the Government can take to address these issues.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I start off by saying that my sister is profoundly deaf? So, I have an interest in this. But, if you are deaf, you are less likely to be in paid employment; if you are in paid employment, you're likely to be low paid, and you're likely to have few, if any, qualifications. The one thing that would improve this is improving the situation of British Sign Language, treating it and making it a GCSE subject comparable to Welsh and English, because, for the deaf community, British Sign Language is their first language. And we need to ensure that other children know the rudiments of British Sign Language as well in order to communicate with them.
We've had a petition in from Swansea, promoting British Sign Language, and there's a lot of correspondence taking place about British Sign Language. But the reality is that unless we support British Sign Language, and support its teaching, and support children with it, children are still going to be less well off.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, Mike, first of all, for your questions, but for your continued advocacy on behalf of the BSL-speaking community. We are working with BSL teachers, and other stakeholders with experience and expertise in BSL, to develop curriculum guidance for BSL for children who use BSL as a medium of education, and/or as their first language, and guidance for those schools introducing BSL as a third or subsequent language, in addition to Welsh and English. This guidance will be available before schools begin implementing the new curriculum, and I know that there is interest in schools to ensure that they can provide BSL within their new curriculum.
We recognise the need to do more to develop a co-ordinated approach to the promotion and support for BSL, and are giving consideration to a national charter for delivery of services and resources for deaf children, young people and their families.

Teaching Welsh History

David Melding AC: 2. Will the Minister make a statement on the materials and resources available to teach Welsh history in schools? OAQ55267

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, David.Hundreds of teaching resources, specifically relating to Welsh history, are available for teachers to utilise on our online platform, Hwb. Cadw, National Museums Wales, the National Library for Wales and local history associations have all produced resources, which have been captured by the Learned Society of Wales's recent review of such resources.

David Melding AC: Minister, that's an encouraging answer. And, at the moment, when we're dealing with the coronavirus, I think it's important to realise that there are historical events that can be instructive, like the Spanish flu epidemic, called 'Spanish' because Spain wasn't under reporting restrictions, as it didn't participate in the first world war. And I heard Professor Sir Deian Hopkin say on Sunday Supplement that David Lloyd George was very seriously ill during that flu pandemic. And that's something I didn't know. I have seen the many graves of servicemen around various places in Wales, which say that private so-and-so, sergeant-whatever, died in 1919. And a lot of those were, of course, caused by the flu pandemic. And people will want to study our current period at some point as well, which is why record keeping, and resources, and all these things are so important.

Kirsty Williams AC: Indeed. It's interesting that you raise this interesting supplementary to this question. I have advised all three of my daughters to keep a diary of this time, so that, in years to come, when this country is back to normal, which we will be—which we will be—then they can reflect on their experiences as a young person, and their reflections on how we, as adults and grown-ups, are reacting. So it is an interesting suggestion, and may be a primary resource for Hwb of the future.
But on the wider issue of the new curriculum, as everyone knows, the new curriculum is moving away from specifying lists and topics of content to be taught. But of course, good-quality resources are essential to that process, and that's why we did commission the Learned Society of Wales to map the available existing resources that can be used to support the Welsh dimension and the international perspective of our new curriculum. Dr Sarah Morse, of the Learned Society of Wales, has stated that there is not a shortage of resources. There is an extensive list already available, but where we have identified gaps, we will be working with stakeholders to address those gaps.

Mike Hedges AC: I think that David Melding raised a really important point, because far too much of current events, which will be looked at in history in the future, are ephemeral—they're being held digitally, and they will disappear. I think that's something that we need to all worry about.
But two things I would like to raise. Two parts of Welsh history are often ignored. Firstly, the working class struggles of the eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth centuries. And, secondly, Wales was rarely one kingdom following the departure of the Romans in the fifth century—it evolved into a series of kingdoms. Will the Minister support the teaching of, and the provision of resources about, the history of working-class Welsh history, and of the great kingdoms that existed within the boundaries of what is now Wales?

Kirsty Williams AC: As I said in my answer to David Melding, the Learned Society have not identified a lack of resources as a challenge to delivering our new curriculum. But where there are gaps in resources, we'll be looking to work with interested parties, of all kinds—maybe even you, Mike—to be able to develop resources to fill those gaps.

Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Suzy Davies AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. First of all, Minister, can I just thank you for the statement you released just before we came to Plenary today? I'm sure you will be getting questions on school closures, but I'm actually going to focus my questions on post-16 education.
It does, however, inevitably mean beginning with a question about those studying for those key exams at ages 16, 17 and 18, as well as PGCE students, who have to complete their school placements in order to qualify. And your answer may also be relevant for childcare students, who are in placements perhaps, if not in a school, at least on a site that's shared with a school. If schools are going to close, or partly close, I think this timetable for getting students ready for their final exams and assessments is going to be significantly affected. We're hitting a time of year when, particularly at GCSE, controlled assessments for GCSEs are about to be conducted. It's got direct implications for pupils and teachers—whether they're absent or not absent. And even with supply teachers, there's a possibility, I suppose, of seconding qualified teachers back into the classrooms from other locations. It also has implications for exam boards and Qualifications Wales when it comes to marking and moderating results. So, what options are you considering now about exams due to be taken next term? Who are you talking to about this? And when can we realistically expect a decision on what might happen about either postponement or predicted grades, or any other alternatives?

Kirsty Williams AC: Can I thank Suzy Davies for that question? I very much appreciate that this is a source of stress and anxiety, primarily to those young people, who have been working so hard in preparation for external exams, as well as those teachers who've been working alongside them.
This morning, I met with Qualifications Wales and the WJEC to take advice on this matter. I am also in close contact with Gavin Williamson. I spoke to him yesterday, and I have spoken to him again this morning around the considerations that he is taking with regard to examinations and, yesterday evening, I spoke to John Swinney, the education Minister in Scotland. All three of us are grappling with the same issues, and I hope to make an announcement with regard to the examinations in the very near future.

Suzy Davies AC: Well, thank you for that and for confirming that all the nations are working together on this. I think that absolutely does make sense, particularly when we're talking about exams taken in—it'll be year 13, won't it—for going on to further or higher education where there is greater competition, as we're not talking just about Wales.
On that subject though, I'm quite interested in what conversations you've had with further education and higher education and some work-based learning settings, but in particular higher education—what sort of steer you've had from both vice-principals and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales about how they're going to be approaching entry requirements for this autumn in a way that's equitable with cohorts in previous years, as regards standards for those entry requirements.
I'm wondering also if you could tell us a little bit about whether you've spoken to vice-principals and the Student Loans Company about their attitude to the finances of students who are going to be deprived of supervised study—and I mean, supervised study—by individual universities' decisions to close.

Kirsty Williams AC: First of all, can I say that any decision that I take with regard to the examinations will have at its heart the principle of fairness and equity to young people? It is not their fault that they find themselves in this situation. Their efforts should not be constrained or affected negatively by the situation and we want to make sure that we deal with them fairly and equitably, but also in a robust way as well, so that they can have confidence in the system, going forward.
Discussions have taken place between, I understand, all of the UK versions of Qualifications Wales and close discussions with UCAS, as well as Universities UK, about how we can manage this situation together. Obviously, this has potentially an impact on universities and their recruitment to programmes starting in the autumn. So, there is a joined-up, co-ordinated approach between individual exam bodies, the regulators, Ministers, as well as universities and UCAS itself.

Suzy Davies AC: Well, thank you for that answer. I, along with other spokespeople here, I think, will also be contacting members of the higher education sector to look a little bit further than that again, particularly on this issue of how student loans are going to be affected by the fact that some students are basically having at least one term taken out of their programme of study, and I think there's a question of equitability there as well.
Just to close though, and it's in the same space really, it's just about a year until this Assembly dissolves, and you have two major pieces of legislation slated for your portfolio, and if we're going to be working on the precedent from this Government, I'm anticipating that both of those will be pretty much framework Bills, which will require full scrutiny, both on the thoroughness of policy development and on the quality detail of likely content of any regulations that will be used subsequently to the passing of the primary legislation to complete it. And I'll be upfront at this stage, I can't see myself supporting any truncating or reduction of time required for this legislature to carry out its primary purpose of thorough scrutiny of legislation.
Now, we're all at the mercy of reduced capacity, as a result of the coronavirus. Legislation to activate the new curriculum is time-sensitive and already delayed for reasons we understand, but it still needs our full attention and maximum support in terms of tested evidence to command confidence. And I really doubt that we can give it that attention if we're also being asked to give equal attention to the very complicated legislation, which fundamentally changes the regulation of FE and HE, with all its implications for standards. So, it's not that post compulsory education and training is unimportant, but it's not as time sensitive.
And on the basis that I suspect that you're not mindedto postpone that Bill until the next Welsh Parliament, can you guarantee, firstly, that you will not be asking to reduce the timetables for scrutiny of both Bills regardless of coronavirus and, secondly, should this Parliament decide that it cannot accommodate proper scrutiny because of coronavirus, that you will consider dropping the post-compulsory education and training Bill in the fifth Assembly?

Kirsty Williams AC: It was remiss of me, Presiding Officer, not to address Suzy Davies's questions with regard to the student loan company. We are working closely with the student loan company to ensure that advisers are available to respond to students and universities, seeking assurances in relation to their studies and finances.
I should also make it clear that universities are doing the very best they can to move to a system where they can continue to provideeducation to their students, looking at remote lectures and matters of that kind. So, they're working very hard across the sector to be able to provide as much continuity to students as possible.
With regard to the timetabling, in some ways, I am at the mercy of the Standing Orders within this Chamber. My—it's not mine, is it, but the—[Inaudible.]—legislation is with the Presiding Officer at the moment, going through the usual processes that we do before formal introduction here in this Chamber. And I'm sure we would all want to work together, if we can, to deliver what is a very important and significantly—actually, a radical piece of legislation, which I think will bring greater coherence to our post-compulsory education and training sector, which I think is much needed, and I would hope that we can all work together to make sure that that happens.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you very much. Could I also welcome the announcement that you made at 1 o’clock today that schools will close for statutory provision? But, of course, we need clarity urgently and clear guidelines from you for the schools about what the definition will be now of a school—what the role of our schools will be as we move forward. They won't need to do the statutory provision, but they have a key role in ensuring that our key workers in public services, including the health service of course, can continue to have support for their children and also the most vulnerable children and those on free school meals. We need those clear guidelines.
A word about the examinations, which Suzy has referred to: I think that the time has come now to say very clearly that we need to get rid of the exams—to postpone them in terms of the GCSEs and A-levels, with the intention of holding them at another time or to adjust the needs. You've mentioned previously, for example, using predicted grades for access to universities. I think the time has come now to move the pressure that's involved with that and the work that teachers feel that they have to do in relation to exams. If that pressure is lifted from them, then it's possible for the schools to be able to give the focus where it's needed and where we agree it should be.
So, I'd just like to ask a few questions about that. What will be the new definition of a 'school'? How are the schools going to ensure that they reach the most vulnerable children in order to give them that support? What are the guidelines for the schools that have already closed? We know that many schools have already closed—will they be expected to be reopen in their new role? And, of course, child safety issues—how is that going to come into or be included in the new definition of a school?

Kirsty Williams AC: Presiding Officer, as the Member rightly identified, at 1 o'clock this afternoon, I announced that we are bringing forward the Easter break for schools in Wales, which means that schools will close for statutory provision this Friday, 20 March. From next week, schools indeed will have a new purpose—a purpose that is not dissimilar to the one that Siân Gwenllian described. A purpose to ensure that our most vulnerable children are supported during this difficult time, with a particular emphasis on those children who usually would access free school meals and also our children with additional learning needs, for whom attendance at school is an important part of keeping their well-being as good as it can be.
We also have to address the needs of those parents who are at the front line of tackling this public health emergency and that, it's true, does include doctors and nurses, but that list of people who are at the front line of keeping this country going goes well beyond those dedicated medical professionals who are working in our hospitals. So, for instance, social care and domiciliary care workers, as well as others who are ensuring that there is food in our supermarkets and basic local services continue to be maintained. We are already working—I, the First Minister and Cabinet colleagues met with the leader of the Welsh Local Government Association again this morning to explore with him what provisions we will be taking.
Of course, this is not something that is completely new to us. We will be building on the strong foundations and the very, very positive experiences of some of our Food and Fun schemes, which local authorities are well used to running, and we will be identifying with our colleagues in local government key sites and key personnel that can help us ensure that meeting the needs of the most vulnerable children and the needs of those workers that we want out there on the front line can be addressed in the coming weeks.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you very much. We are very grateful, of course, to the teachers and the other staff in our schools in this period. They are also key workers and their role is expected to change as they move forward, and we appreciate that great flexibility that is going to be needed now.
So, could I ask you about the teachers and the assistant teachers? What will be their role in the new arrangements if the definition of schools changes, or are you still expecting them to be open as much as they can be? What will be the role of the teachers? Will there be a role for supply teachers in this new system? You will know that some of them will be very eager to continue to work because they work for agencies, and perhaps they are going to be short of money. So, there is a specific role there. And what about the people who have teaching qualifications but who are not involved in the schools at present? Maybe they work in the consortia or in other areas, and you mentioned that briefly. So, could you expand a little on that, please?

Kirsty Williams AC: Educational professionals have indeed been on the front line andholding the line as this country faces this epidemic, and I want to take this opportunity to thank them, each and every one of them, for what they have been doing, often in very difficult and stressful circumstances. Even when they have been worried about, perhaps, their own loved ones, they have had their pupils front and centre in their minds and have been absolutely dedicated in trying to provide as normal as possible an experience for our children and young people at this very worrying time. And as I said, they've been doing that under great, great pressure, for which I am very grateful.
Of course, there will be a continuing role for teachers and teaching assistants, and we are in daily contact—my department is—with the teaching unions to discuss how best to take things forward. I met yesterday with the Council for Wales of Voluntary Youth Services to talk about the role of youth workers in this scenario. As I said, I earlier met with the leader of the WLGA to look at the plethora of professional staff that we have within our local authorities with the skills and the aptitude to be able to assist us as we move forward. I will update Members as those plans develop, but there is a role for everybody who has the appropriate qualifications, skills and knowledge to be working with our children at this time.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you. I just want to return to a couple of things that haven’t been answered. I've asked them already—I’m sorry, I’ve asked you a lot of questions, I know—but I think this is important. What are the guidelines for the schools that have already closed? We know that there is a list of schools that have told parents that they’ve already closed this week. Will they be expected to reopen in their new role? And then, in terms of the new role of the school, how will you be dealing with complex safety issues for children, to ensure that the children who still go to school will still be secure within the education settings at present?

Kirsty Williams AC: I have to be absolutely clear to Members, I do not anticipate that, at the end of this extended Easter recess, we will be in a position to go back to schools as normal. I cannot give any guarantees and that should be nobody's expectation. So, we will not be expecting, nor do I envisage, that every school will be open. We will be working with local government partners to identify certain sites where these services can be organised and offered, but it is not my expectation that every single school will be opening and functioning as normal at the end of this Easter recess. Clearly, we will be keeping that situation under constant review, but we will be looking to work with local authorities to have the most pragmatic management of our resources as possible as we face this unprecedented pressure.

Coronavirus

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 3. Will the Minister make a statement on the advice given to teachers about coronavirus? OAQ55254

Andrew RT Davies AC: 7. Will the Minister make a statement on the latest guidance for schools in South Wales Central in light of the coronavirus outbreak? OAQ55248

Kirsty Williams AC: Presiding Officer, I understand that you have given your permission for question 3 and 7 to be grouped.
The Welsh Government and Public Health Wales have issued guidance to schools over education and other educational settings on the coronavirus, and the Member will be aware of my statement that I issued at 1 o'clock this afternoon.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you. And, again I'd like to put on record my thanks to everybody involved with the schools and teachers. As you quite rightly point out, it's a very anxious time for everyone.
In the short time—. My questions were completely different but as things are changing by the minute and by the hour, already I've been asked—. Some teachers are expressing concerns regarding coursework deadlines, because these, of course, were intended to be in by Easter, and some pupils have 30 per cent of work left to complete, particularly so concerns around exam group years 11 and 13, so what are your instructions and guidance there? Will the WJEC and the Joint Council for Qualifications be putting a statement out at all? And another concern is online teaching—some now, with learning from home, believe that a lot of this will be carried out online. Well, as you're aware, in many rural communities they just don't have the broadband facilities, so what measures will you take to ensure that there is some kind of parity of expectation in terms of where—? Certainly my own constituents, some of them their broadband is—well, they haven't got superfast broadband, so there will be complications there. Thank you.

Kirsty Williams AC: Can I sympathise with the Member? She's absolutely right when she says that this is a fast-moving situation—actually, minutes feel long at the moment, let alone hours and days, so I sympathise with the Member. She is right, issues around assessment—formal assessments and examinations will be at the forefront of our secondary school practitioners, which is why, as I said in answer to your colleague Suzy Davies, I will be looking to make an announcement as soon as possible following my meeting with Qualifications Wales and the WJEC this morning.
With regard to online learning, she's absolutely right. Actually, this Government's investment in Hwb and the development of the Hwb has put us at the absolute forefront of our ability to deliver online learning, as is the fact that every single child in Wales, via Hwb, has access to Microsoft Office and such software, as do all our teaching professionals. So, they can access that—they can use that software free of charge from home. But she is right, we do have to be mindful of equity in this situation, although I hope that she will agree with me that we're not going to get it perfect because we are dealing with such extraordinary circumstances. But she will be aware that we've been working closely with schools in the run-up to this decision, and schools where I know—where they know—that internet access could be problematic for their children have produced home learning packs in hard copy and are sending those home with children. So, those teachers who know that this could be an issue have already been anticipating and looking at different ways in which they can support children's education going forward.

Andrew RT Davies AC: I appreciate the answers you've given to date, Minister, and it is a very fast-moving situation. One of the questions that would have been asked many times today would have been about the opening of schools. You've already answered that question with your announcement before question time. I appreciate you've given timelines to, say, in the near future, and I'm not looking for a day, I'm not looking for a week, because I appreciate that's difficult at this time, but are we likely to get any more information around examinations by the end of the week or should we expect next week to get more information on that? Because I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that many constituents are going to come to us—as I said, not looking for exact days, hours or minutes when the statement might come, but I think if we can give broad narratives of when this information might be available, that would be at least helpful at this stage. So, should we anticipate more information next week or might we get something by the end of the week?

Kirsty Williams AC: Andrew, I appreciate how challenging the announcements on bringing forward the Easter recess will be to students, to teachers and parents, and I say that as a parent of a child that is in year 13 and is in year 11. So, I know how crucial and anxious children are. I would be very disappointed if we cannot make a further decision before the end of this week, because we will need to operationalise the processes around that decision.

Question 4 [OAQ55262] has been withdrawn. Therefore, question 5, Hefin David.

School Standards

Hefin David AC: 5. Will the Minister make a statement on school standards in Wales? OAQ55257

Kirsty Williams AC: Our national mission in Wales is to raise standards for all of our children. I was pleased to read in Estyn's 2018-19 annual report that standards are good or better in the majority of Welsh schools. However, it is very clear to me that improvements need to be made, especially in our secondary sector.

Hefin David AC: When I tabled the question last week, my intention was to celebrate those improvements in standards, particularly in Hendre Infants School, Trinity Fields School, Nant Y Parc Primary School, St Cenydd Community School, and, most recently, Cylch Meithrin Tonyfelin. These improvements are very welcome, but things are changing with schools as we've seen with the discussion we've had today and the announcement you've made. Therefore, can I ask how will the Welsh Government consider the impact on the Welsh Government's own school categorisation system, and in future inspections, of what has happened in the last few weeks, particularly with parents who've kept their children out of school, although they've not been advised to do so, and teachers who may have been self-isolating and unable to attend? How can we be sure that that won't have a long-term effect on the school categorisation and the standards in schools across Wales?

Kirsty Williams AC: Well, first of all, I'd like to join you in celebrating the successes of the schools that you've mentioned. As you know, I have a particular soft spot for Trinity Fields especially, which is one of our outstanding special schools, not just in your area, but actually across Wales.
I want to make it absolutely clear to our teaching professionals that we're not operating in normal times. You will be aware, after discussions over the weekend with Estyn, that all inspections have been suspended. We have also stood down all our challenge adviser work from the regional consortia at the beginning of this week to take that pressure off schools. I want to make it absolutely clear, whilst we have been continuing to record attendance data, we have done that to ensure that we have live information about what is actually happening on the ground, and that data will not be used for any kind of performance or accountability measures. We are not operating in normal times, and it would not be fair to our schools if we were to continue to operate our usual accountability regimes at this moment. I want to reassure the profession that I understand that, Estyn understands that, and the regional consortia and the local education authorities understand that. All rules are off. Should we be able to be in a position of bringing schools back, for instance, we would not expect schools to undertake testing—the assessments that are still done on paper, for instance. But I think that is probably a moot point now. But I want to reassure schools that we will not be using our usual methods at this time, because we are in extraordinary circumstances.

Ongoing Training for Teachers

Angela Burns AC: 6. Will the Minister provide an update on the provision of ongoing training for teachers working in Wales? OAQ55270

Kirsty Williams AC: Professional learning is crucial to ensuring that all staff—school staff—have the skills to deliver on our education reforms in Wales. We're expecting a profound transformation in the way that our practitioners think about professional learning in the light of the new curriculum, especially. As you can imagine, earlier this week, we had to stand down our professional learning offer. It was not appropriate at that time, when we needed all personnel to be in the classroom and not attending professional learning events.

Angela Burns AC: No, and I totally understand that. In fact, I thought about withdrawing this question; I've withdrawn other ones today because I think that the most important thing we've got going on at the moment is, obviously, coronavirus. But I kept this one on because I know that, as the recess develops and we go into the summer, you will be looking at the development of teachers September onwards, and the question, actually, is, really, about supporting our teachers and giving them the ability to handle difficult children, children with behaviour management. I just wonder—not now, but going forward—. I've had a lot of concern from headteachers and teachers in my constituency where the teachers have not really been trained how to handle very disruptive, very aggressive primary schoolchildren. They don't want to ban them from school—that doesn't help anyone—but the teachers themselves need more resilience, more coping skills, more training, and I wondered if you would address that.
And please will you forgive me—or give me some indulgence—but, when you make your statement next week, could I ask you to consider giving us an update on, if the schools are going to be closed for a longer period of time than perhaps just Easter, whether we'd be able to use school facilities for the children of very important front-line healthcare, social care workers, or what we might be able to do? Because if we take them out of our health and social care workforce, our pharmacists, our police, we're really stuck. Thank you.

Kirsty Williams AC: Well, the Member is right; we need to identify and support teachers in all their professional development needs. If I can be slightly breaking the rules as well this afternoon, as we all seem to be doing, Siân Gwenllian did raise the issue of initial teacher education and those students who will be on placement. Members here will know that ITE students need to complete a certain number of hours to gain their qualification. I have confirmed with all our ITE providers that those usual rules have been suspended. The vast majority of hours have already been completed, and I am not prepared to miss out on those talented students getting into our workforce for the sake of a few extra hours in our schools. So, I want to reassure them that they will not be disbenefited because they cannot complete their work placements in schools. We need them in our teaching workforce and we will not jeopardise that position.
The Member is absolutely right—I'm sorry if I haven't made it clear previously—when we think about the repurposing of our school estate, we will absolutely be looking at providing opportunities for those people who we need to continue to work, in its widest possible sense, to be able to avail themselves of opportunities to have their children attend meaningful, purposeful activity, probably out of a school building. We'll be working very closely with the local authorities to identify where are the best places to do that. We will be calling on all our professional resources—teachers, youth workers, sports development workers, arts practitioners—to ensure that that time is fun, it's meaningful and it's useful and can give parents real confidence so that they can do what they need to do and, my goodness me, do we need them to carry on doing what they are doing and not to be distracted about who is looking after their children and what their children are doing.
That is absolutely—. That's one of the reasons why we've kept schools going as long as we have, because they have been playing that vital role. We cannot say it too often, can we? We're ever so grateful. We know our healthcare workers are on the front line, but our teachers have been doing their bit as well to support this national effort.

The Importance of Healthy Relationships

Vikki Howells AC: 8. Will the Minister outline the way in which compulsory school age pupils within the Cynon Valley are taught the importance of healthy relationships? OAQ55240

Kirsty Williams AC: High-quality relationship and sexuality education has an important role to play in supporting learners in recognising healthy, safe relationships and understanding that. That's why relationship and sexuality education will be a mandatory part of our new curriculum.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you for your answer, Minister, and I do applaud you for making that a mandatory part of the curriculum.
I recently had the pleasure of meeting with Hafan Cymru to discuss the Welsh Government-funded Spectrum project. I was very impressed by that, with the age-appropriate content around healthy relationships and domestic abuse that they offer to Welsh schools, and, crucially, free of charge as well, which is quite a rarity these days. When our schools do reconvene after the coronavirus epidemic is over, I’m sure that our pupils will need support in these areas more than ever. So, how is the Welsh Government encouraging schools in Wales to take up the sessions that Spectrum offers?

Kirsty Williams AC: Can I, alongside Vikki, commend the work and the Spectrum project? Quite often in this Chamber we debate the issue of domestic violence and our response to domestic violence. One of the most effective things that we can do is to ensure that all of our children, no matter who they are, where they're from, understand what a healthy relationship looks like, understand their responsibilities in a relationship, but also understand their rights within a relationship and how to challenge behaviours and how to seek help if that is appropriate. That's how, eventually, I hope that we can tackle the scourge of domestic violence—by better educating all of our children and young people.
You're right; there are a variety of ways in which we can promote the project and the fact that these resources and this training are free, and I would be happy to share some of those with Vikki once we're back in business, back to normal, and we can get our schools and our children back to normal as soon as we can.

Question 9, finally—Mark Isherwood.

Barriers to Access for Disabled Pupils in School

Mark Isherwood AC: 9. How is the Welsh Government removing barriers to access for disabled pupils in school? OAQ55247

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you, Mark. I am committed to ensuring an inclusive education system, in which all of our learners are effectively supported to overcome barriers to learning. Our ambitious additional learning needs reforms will drive improvements and raise awareness of ALN to ensure that all of our learners can achieve their full potential.

Mark Isherwood AC: It's now, I think, two years since the children's commissioner produced her follow-up report on wheelchair accessibility in schools in Wales, 'Full Lives: Equal Access', which identified a number of areas for improvement, some of which were strict duties under the Equality Act 2010, some of which were not. It found, for example,
'over-reliance on individual schools to plan for the needs of pupils with physical disabilities'
and that only one of Wales's 22 councils had sought the views of young people when drafting their accessibility strategy. Amongst the things it said that needed to happen was consultation with children and young people and their families, which is a duty under the Equality Act 2010 and has to form part of the accessibility strategies and plans to make these meaningful and uphold the rights of children across Wales. All local authorities and schools should therefore be consulting with children, young people and their families in preparing their strategy or plan.
How, therefore, do you respond to a situation of which I've been made aware where a local education authority, having accessed a school site, told the parents of a young wheelchair user that they were not prepared to pay for the adaptations needed for the site and that the pupil was going to be moved to another school before discussing the child's needs with the parents. Fortunately, the parents understood the law, their rights, both devolved and non-devolved, and they're now in engagement, but only because they battled to become so, and they're now discussing proposed alternative adaptations. So, how, two years after that key report, can you or will you re-engage with local education authorities, some of whom are still pursuing these archaic and discriminatory practices?

Kirsty Williams AC: Well, Mark, quite rightly, as you said, local authorities have a statutory responsibility for the preparation of an accessibility strategy for their entire educational estate, and schools themselves have a similar statutory responsibility. These strategies and plans must be prepared, implemented, reviewed and renewed every three years, and it's very—I'm appalled by the situation that you've just explained. It's simply not acceptable in my eyes.
Of course, one of the ways in which we are addressing this as a Welsh Government is our twenty-first century schools and colleges building programme, where we take these issues over accessibility as front and centre in what we want to achieve in our educational estate. But schools have existing legal responsibilities, LEAs have existing legal responsibilities, and I'm always happy to investigate those cases that you've just highlighted and challenge the behaviour of local authorities if that's not being adhered to.

Thank you, Minister.

2. Questions to the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language

The next item, therefore, is the questions to the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, and the first question is from Caroline Jones.

Support for the Tourism Industry

Caroline Jones AC: 1. What support is the Welsh Government providing to the tourism industry to mitigate the impact that coronavirus may have in Wales? OAQ55252

Eluned Morgan AC: This is a developing situation. I want to reassure the sector that we're continually monitoring the impact of coronavirus on tourism and working with colleagues across the Welsh Government and the UK Government to take appropriate measures in response to the unfolding situation.

Caroline Jones AC: Diolch, Minister. When I tabled this question last week, who could have imagined that we'd be seeing the effective cancellation of the tourist season before it even began? Minister, hopefully the measures we are taking to halt the spread of coronavirus will mean that life can return to some sense of normality in a month or two.
In the meantime, the impact this pandemic is having on tourism businesses and those who work in tourism is profound. We need to ensure that all businesses, large and small, survive this crisis. Bans on international travel will mean more staycations once the UK relaxes the current restrictions. However, unless the sector gets the help that it needs in the short term, we won't have a sector come the summer.
Minister, what other measures have you discussed with colleagues across the UK? Have you given any consideration to Government agencies using holiday lets, hotels and B&Bs to provide shelter for the homeless or as temporary accommodation for key workers? This is an unprecedented situation for which we need to seek unprecedented solutions.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you, Caroline Jones. I think you're absolutely right to underline the seriousness of the situation for this particular sector. We know that there are about 11,700 tourism enterprises in Wales, and they employ about 135,000 people. So, this is huge, and we are taking it very, very seriously. Certainly, we hope that some of the measures that we've already put in place will help some of them. We're putting £200 million on the table to make sure that those who have a rateable value of £51,000 or less will receive that 100 per cent business rate relief. But there will be an extra £100 million on the table, and that is something that is currently being discussed, and certainly there's a real awareness and an understanding that this is a sector that needs immediate help.

Suzy Davies AC: Can I just begin by asking you to say thank you to the officials of the Deputy Minister on my behalf and behalf of the cross-party group on tourism because they've now put some guidance up on the website?
Just on that last point, though, I appreciate that the Chancellor only gave additional details of the finance being made available to Wales yesterday, but even before that Scotland had announced a 75 per cent rates relief for retail hospitality and leisure businesses with a rateable value of £69,000 and less from 1 April. That is a little bit more helpful for those businesses that are over the £51,000 threshold, as we would see here in Wales.
I appreciate there's a £5,000 reduction on business rates for those businesses over £51,000, but actually the 75 per cent reduction is probably better for them. If you consider that some of these are genuinely local businesses and not big national chains, and also employ more people, I'd be grateful if you or the Deputy Minister would be willing to take that argument to the table on Thursday, when the use of the £100 million you refer to is being discussed.
My question is this, though: we're right at the beginning of the main tourism season when these businesses, large or small, are considering taking on their seasonal staff. If we want to avoid an explosion of zero-hours contracts, I wonder if you could share your current thoughts on supporting seasonal payroll as well as perhaps giving an indication of how quickly tourism operators know how the rate relief that you've already referred to is going to operate in terms of speed, because that's obviously very pressing for them at the moment. Thank you.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. Certainly, we are extremely aware that the people who are significantly under threat here are the SMEs, and they may be averse to borrowing. There are opportunities for them to borrow through the Development Bank of Wales, but obviously some of those are averse to taking that out. So, what we do know now is that we will have consequential funding as a result of the Chancellor's announcement of £1.16 billion, and we are hoping that some of that will specifically be directed towards the retail, hospitality, leisure and tourism sector.
We feel like the Chancellor perhaps should have gone a little bit further than he did do in terms of underwriting the wages of employees who are laid off. So, some of them have already been contracted. I understand your point that some of them would have perhaps just been about to be taken on, but I think, at the moment, we do feel like the Chancellor has got to go a lot further in terms of protecting and underwriting those wages of the employees who are likely to be laid off unless something changes significantly.

Question 2 [OAQ55267] has been withdrawn. Question 3, Nick Ramsay.

International Town-twinning Initiatives

Nick Ramsay AC: 3. How is the Welsh Government supporting international town-twinning initiatives across Wales? OAQ55268

Eluned Morgan AC: Welsh Government has no formal role in the process for twinning towns, cities and regions, but we do recognise the benefit of town-twinning arrangements and what they can bring. I've written to the Welsh Local Government Association requesting an update on twinning arrangements, but given the current situation, I'm not expecting an imminent response on this matter.

Nick Ramsay AC: Diolch, Gweinidog, for that answer. Clearly, this question was tabled before the seriousness of the current situation developed. You'll probably be aware that the dream of twinning Abergavenny in my constituency with Chinamhora town in Zimbabwe has moved from a dream to a fast-developing reality, with several meetings recently. This is great for Wales-Africa relations. You were involved from the start, with myself and the mayor of Abergavenny and also Dave and Martha Holman from the Love Zimbabwe, so you're aware of what was happening there.
How are you supporting twinning association relationships across Wales, and specifically between towns in Wales and towns in other parts of the world outside of the EU? And, at this time where we see the fast-developing situation with the coronavirus and where that's taking us, how do you see in future the development of twin towns as being a valuable way for towns across the world to communicate and share best practice at times of global crisis?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. Can I just say how delighted I was to see that link between Abergavenny town and Chinamhora in Zimbabwe? Certainly, the inspirational leadership of Martha and David has been something to behold. I do think that it is something that we'd like to encourage from a Welsh Government point of view, but as I say, this is something very much that should be led at the local government level.
What we have been doing in relation to Wales and Africa is there have been projects that were set up several years ago, when the UN world poverty day delivering the millennium development goals was set out. That's when we first had the flagship programme, Wales for Africa community links, and that was when the initiatives started in places like Pontypridd with Mbale. If you look at how that project has developed over the years, it is really something that the community has taken up themselves. That's the kind of model, I think, that we'd like to see in future.

Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson first—Darren Millar.

Darren Millar AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can I ask you how many people from Wales are currently stranded overseas as a result of the coronavirus crisis?

Eluned Morgan AC: So, we don't have the exact figures of the number of people who are stranded overseas at the moment. Obviously, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is taking a lead on that, but we obviously are encouraging people to come home, if it is possible for them, now. That is the advice that has come from the FCO.

Darren Millar AC: Obviously, this is a very worrying time for some of those people who are currently stranded overseas, and in particular their families who will be very concerned about their welfare. So, can I urge you to continue to work with the UK Government in order to support those individuals who may need assistance in order to get home?
One of the other groups of people for which the Welsh Government, of course, will be directly responsible are those Welsh Government employees currently overseas—many of them in countries that have felt the strongest effects of the COVID-19 problem. I just wonder whether you could provide some information on what action you're taking as a Welsh Government to safeguard those employees, what engagement you've had with their families, and whether there are arrangements for them to be repatriated to Wales in the near future.

Eluned Morgan AC: We're in constant touch, obviously, with the 21 offices that the Welsh Government has around the world. The representatives based in the three cities in China have been working from home for an extensive period of time now. Most of our offices are situated within the FCO departments, so, along with the UK Government, obviously, they are following the advice that is coming from them, but there is constant communication with them. In fact, a group of them were supposed to be coming back last week to have a kind of annual debriefing; obviously, that was cancelled, But that communication is something that is ongoing and continuous, and obviously the welfare of our own staff is something we take very seriously.

Darren Millar AC: Obviously, Minister, our hearts go out to them at the moment in what may be very challenging circumstances in those local areas to which they've been assigned.
Minister, in the international strategy, you obviously identified that there are many important relationships, trade wise, that Wales has with many different nations and regions around the world, including, obviously, our most important partners on our doorsteps in the European Union, North America and indeed in Asia—including east Asia, which of course has felt the brunt of the coronavirus. I think it's fair to say that we're in very uncertain times economically, and it's quite possible that those relationships will become more strained, given the impact of many of the restrictions that are now bearing down upon businesses around the globe.
Now, those businesses that rely heavily on export and import trade are likely to be perhaps more greatly affected than many others in Wales. I wonder what discussions you may have had with your colleagues in the Cabinet and directly with those import-export businesses to determine what support they might need going forward. Because I do think that, given that you have some flexibility now as a result of some additional resource from the UK Government to support businesses, there does need to be a better understanding of the impact on those importers and exporters because of the nature of their work on a global basis.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. You're absolutely right in identifying the importance of trade. Trade contributes about 22 per cent of the GDP to the economy of Wales, so it is something that we have to take very, very seriously. Obviously, we are particularly concerned about the trade negotiations that should be ongoing with the European Union in relation to Brexit, knowing that that deadline is coming up. We of course would advocate that that should probably be pushed back now, under the circumstances.
There is another trade negotiation that was due to start next week with the United States, and obviously it's impossible for those trade negotiators now to actually get to the States in order to start those negotiations. So, I do think we have to be a bit more creative in the way that we approach these things. Certainly, in relation to import and export, supply chains for the Welsh economy are absolutely crucial, and certainly this is an area that we are keeping an eye on. Because, obviously, if people can't bring in the components that they need, then that will cause great problems and ultimately could force factories to close.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd.

Dai Lloyd AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. Of course, with this huge black cloud of coronavirus, naturally, all the rules change. And in passing—following on from Nick Ramsay's question—Swansea city has been twinned with a city in China for many years, a city called Wuhan. It used to be a challenge trying to explain to people where Wuhan was, but no more.
This challenge of coronavirus stretches across all of the Government departments—of course, there are key departments—including specifically your department. Following the questions on trade and the expertise of your department on trade, may I ask what negotiations are you having on the international availability of medical trade? That is, the medical equipment for the medical crisis that we're having. I'm talking about ventilators and so on, and also other specialist international equipment that this country needs in this dire situation.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. Of course, it's very interesting to hear that Swansea is twinned with Wuhan. That's one of the reasons why I've written to local government exactly to find out who is twinned with who.
In terms of trade, you’re right to emphasise the importance of trying to see where we can have this equipment. What we have to note is that all of these countries are eager to keep their own ventilators, and that’s why the Government in the UK, and the Government in Wales as well, are trying to encourage businesses, particularly those that are engineering firms, to see whether they can adapt what they manufacture so that they can build ventilators for this crisis.

Dai Lloyd AC: Thank you very much for that. And, of course, following on from that, we’re in an emergency and a critical situation at the moment, but this situation is likely to last for weeks, if not months. And, as Darren Millar said, we have people from Wales who are in various countries all over the world, pursuing their own businesses or even representing our country. So, may I ask you what negotiations are you having as a Minister, and as a department, with regard to supporting these people, in addition to the normal support, because of course, they will feel isolated by now because of all the restrictions on international travel, and so on? So, how do you maintain—? In addition to the business as usual, now that we’re in a crisis situation where all the rules do not appertain, what kind of additional support are you putting in place to look at those stranded overseas?

Eluned Morgan AC: One of the things that we’ve done is to ensure that those people who do work for us overseas are not having too much contact with too many people. There are lots of activities that were in the pipeline that have been cancelled; a lot of export missions have been cancelled; people who were supposed to come to Wales, those have cancelled their trips as well. And, so, we’re trying to ensure that they are keeping safe. Of course, generally, they do collaborate with the UK teams that are there. So, they’re not operating in isolation on the whole, so they are following the guidance not only from us, but also the guidance coming from the UK Government. But I do think—. I’m having a meeting this afternoon with a person who is responsible for collaborating and looking at how we operate overseas.

Dai Lloyd AC: Thank you for that, Minister. And, of course, we’ve heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s statement from London this week about the additional funding available. Of course, there is going to be a massive impact because of all the restrictions on meetings, travel and the restrictions on international travel, and a huge impact on the cultural and artistic life of Wales specifically. We’ve heard what’s happened to the Urdd and the cancellation of the Urdd eisteddfod until next year, and the closure of all the Urdd camps, and so on. In financial terms, because at the end of the day, we have to look at the financial side of it, following the statement of the Chancellor, what discussions have you had in looking at some kind of measures to help the arts sector in Wales?

Eluned Morgan AC: We’ve been in discussions with the arts sector and, of course, the sector that’s in charge of major events. A lot of money comes into the country because of major events. I have been having detailed discussions with representatives from the Urdd over the weekend, but all kinds of other activities and other organisations are in the same situation as them. Certainly, we’ve seen that Big Retreat has been cancelled, and the Machynlleth Comedy Festival have been cancelled, and also Tafwyl, and the Llangollen board is meeting tonight. So, there are many organisations who are going to be affected by this, so we’re having discussions with them to see whether there’s anything that we can do but, of course, it’s a critical time for everyone, and what we have to do is see what our priorities are, of course.

Wales and the World

John Griffiths AC: 4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to strengthen links and relations between Wales and the world? OAQ55260

Eluned Morgan AC: In January, I published the Welsh Government's international strategy, which clearly sets out the actions we will take over the next five years, not only to strengthen our international relationships, but to raise our profile, grow the economy, and establish Wales as a globally responsible nation.

John Griffiths AC: Minister, I think the current coronavirus crisis illustrates yet again how inter-connected the modern world is in terms of communications, in terms of trade, in terms of the way we all work together, and I would say, to a great extent, how we either thrive or suffer together. And in that context, I think international development is very, very important and worth while, as indeed it is morally, as well as in practical terms. And I think the Wales for Africa programme is a good example of Wales and Welsh Government understanding that, and acting on those imperatives. And I know when I went to Mbale in Uganda, for example, I saw the activities of PONT there, supporting the local health sector, building health clinics, helping them to develop, and linking with local government and the voluntary sector in that part of Uganda to very good effect. So, I think, when we look at the lessons to be learned in due course, in terms of the current crisis around coronavirus, I would hope, Minister, that it would strengthen our work and our co-operation with sub-Saharan Africa, recognising our inter-connectedness and the mutual benefit that we gain from those strong relations.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. And I think you're absolutely right: if ever there was evidence that we are an inter-connected world, then this is it. And I think that anybody who thinks that they can isolate themselves in this global society is clearly mistaken now. Just in terms of Uganda, and the situation with Africa, we are of course extremely concerned about when and how this coronavirus is going to impact that part of the world, because obviously they have much weaker health provisions in those countries. We happen to have had somebody who was going to go out to Mbale, and they, as a matter of course, self-isolated for 14 days, just in case, because that was not something that we wanted to be responsible for. So we are taking some very concrete measures to make sure that any relationships that we have—. Of course we've stopped all travel on behalf of the organisations going from Wales to Africa at this point in time.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Minister, obviously I fully accept that international relations are a non-devolved issue, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office take the lead on these particular matters, but what is really important for Welsh people abroad is to understand can we in any way play our role in conducting information that might come to us from our constituents. And I declare an interest: I have a son abroad, who's due back at the end of this month, along with my nephew. That is a particularly challenging thought at the moment, that is, especially as the airline are refusing to rebook. So, are we better off just directing constituents to our Members of Parliament in the locality, or does the Welsh Government have any conduits into the FCO that we, as Assembly Members, can play our role in passing that information on? The last thing we need to do is confuse what is already a very confusing and trying situation.

Eluned Morgan AC: I think in relation to this, because the FCO is absolutely taking a lead in terms of bringing people home, I would suggest that they should go directly to the FCO.

Question 5 [OAQ55259] has been withdrawn. Question 6, Helen Mary Jones.

The Impact of Coronavirus on Cultural Events

Helen Mary Jones AC: 6. What assessment has been made of the impact of coronavirus on cultural events, particularly Welsh language events such as Eisteddfod yr Urdd? OAQ55272

Eluned Morgan AC: We are closely monitoring the impact of coronavirus on the events sector, and we are working with colleagues across Welsh Government and UK Government to take appropriate measures in response to the unfolding situation. We're also keeping in close contact with organisations such as the Urdd.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm grateful to the Minister for her reply, and obviously it's early days yet. But I'd be grateful if she can provide some further reassurance that she fully understands the financial impact on the Urdd—hopefully not, but possibly looking forward to the National Eisteddfod in the summer too—and we know that the margins on which these organisations operate are pretty slim anyway, and to lose the capacity to make some profit from running the centres and from the eisteddfod is a big blow for the Urdd. So, will the Minister guarantee to us that she will keep this under very close advisement, and that she will not rule out offering direct financial support, if that's the only way that we can ensure that this very important—? I think we can all be very proud that we have the biggest membership youth organisation in Europe in the Urdd. It's precious, it's priceless, not only because of the language, but because of all the opportunities it gives young people and it would be an absolute tragedy if this dreadful situation was allowed to bring to an end that amazing tradition.

Eluned Morgan AC: I do agree that we need to look not only at the short term, but also what’s going to happen ultimately. The Urdd, of course, is one of the biggest employers in the third sector in Wales. It employs about 320 people; it contributes £31 million to the Welsh economy; and, of course, it’s one of the biggest employers in rural Wales and that’s very important. There are 10,000 volunteers and it may be possible for us to see how we can use those to help us.
You will be aware that Llangrannog has closed and Glanllyn and Cardiff have also closed, or are going to close by the end of the week. They’re going to cancel the local and regional eisteddfods; they’re going to postpone the Urdd eisteddfod in Denbigh for a year; and they’ve cancelled the sports competitions and the community activities. So, of course, it is a very concerning period, and I have had quite detailed conversations with the Urdd about whether we can help them, and we’re discussing that with other Ministers.
There's the National Eisteddfod, of course. There are lots of organisations in that situation, and those discussions are ongoing. But it won’t be possible to help everyone, so we have to look at the best way for us to help and try to put these in a state of suspension for a while, and that might be the best solution. But we’re having very detailed discussions with these organisations.

Darren Millar AC: Thank you for your response, Minister. I think it is very important to support organisations like the Urdd. My own constituency would have been a beneficiary of the fact that this particular Urdd eisteddfod was planned to be held in Denbigh, which is just outside of Clwyd West, but nevertheless has a significant impact on local tourism businesses in particular.
I just wonder what support package you might be able to build around those communities that were looking forward to being able to welcome in people from across Wales, and indeed internationally, to events like the Urdd eisteddfod, because, clearly, they're going to be significantly disadvantaged as a result. Many of them will have had bookings, which they're now going to have to have cancelled, in spite of actually having some outlay, which they may need to pay.
So, when you have a significant event like this that has been cancelled, is there specific support that you might be able to offer in order to compensate those who've already paid out significant sums in order to prepare for them?

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, I think, under normal circumstances, the answer would probably be, 'Yes, we'd be looking to create a package.' These are extreme circumstances and, therefore, we are responding day by day to the situation. I think the priority is to see how we can support those people who are working for the Urdd at the moment. Is there any way of protecting their jobs and looking to the future?
The key thing, as I say, is for us to see how we can preserve these great organisations to make sure that they can flourish in future. I know that the Presiding Officer will be also interested in knowing what is likely to happen with the Eisteddfod genedlaethol. These are all discussions that are being undertaken at the moment.
The scope of this is huge. You think about all of the other organisations—the Hay festival, Llangollen festival. There are huge numbers of events, and obviously most of those events now have been cancelled. So, there are profound implications. I don't think, at this point, we can offer an extended package to those communities that were expecting that to happen, I'm afraid.

Questions 7 [OAQ55263], 8 [OAQ55271] and 9 have been withdrawn. So, question 10, Vikki Howells.

Question 9 [OAQ55249] not asked.

Promoting the Historic Environment

Vikki Howells AC: 10. Will the Welsh Government provide an update on its work to protect and promote the historic environment in Wales? OAQ55241

Eluned Morgan AC: The Welsh Government promotes the unique character and value of our historic environment to the people of Wales and the world. Cadw identifies nationally important historic assets, accords them legal protection and works with public bodies and private owners to secure their sustainable management. Clearly, the priorities of this sector are being reviewed in the light of the coronavirus outbreak.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you for your answer, Minister. It's my very firm belief that we have one of the best heritage sectors in the world here in Wales, both in terms of its cultural significance and the benefits that it brings to the Welsh economy as well. So, could you outline for me, please, a little further the kind of guidance that you've been giving to that sector to guide them through the coronavirus outbreak?

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. Well, I can report that all Cadw sites—all 24 of them—have now been closed. The museums that fall under the responsibility of the Welsh Government are also closed. The National Library of Wales has also closed its doors and we are, of course, in regular contact with them.
We're also in regular contact with the Welsh Museums Federationand associations. And, of course, those have to make decisions for themselves, but if they were following the UK guidance, which has been set out—thatthere shouldn't be people congregating in big numbers—then, obviously, they need to take that into consideration as well.

Tourism in North Wales

Mark Isherwood AC: 11. How is the Welsh Government supporting tourism in North Wales? OAQ55246

Eluned Morgan AC: Given the current circumstances, our tourism is facing really difficult times. This is a developing situation and I want to assure the sector that we're continually monitoring the impact of coronavirus on tourism and working with colleagues across the Government on what support we can offer.

Mark Isherwood AC: I recently had the pleasure of revisiting Llangollen Railway's major engineering project at Corwen central station, which will have a massive impact on boosting tourism in the region, to see first-hand the progress they had made. I'm always amazed and massively impressed by what a group of volunteers with an average age of 68, working on a part-time basis, are able to achieve.
A year ago, speaking here, I called for a Welsh Government statement on support for our standard-gauge heritage railways. We know and applaud the fact that the Welsh Government support narrow-gauge heritage railways, but wanted to see how this massive volunteering effort could be taken forward, not only delivering heritage projects, but offering much for tourism and broader economies in areas, often, that need much stimulus. How, therefore, do you respond to the question or point raised with me during my recent visit that we need the Welsh Government to move on from looking at this in terms of separate narrow and standard-gauge heritage railways and join up the heritage railways sector both in north Wales and across Wales as a win-win for tourism and local economies? And, of course, given your opening comments, this is even more critical in the current environment.

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. I'm sure you'd be interested to hear that the economy Minister's father used to work at the place that you were talking about, so that's of great interest.
I know that the amount of tourism and the number of tourists who are attracted by our narrow-gauge and, as you say, our standard-gauge railway, bring in significant finance into the economy of Wales. So, that is something that we hold dear. The enthusiasm for this sector is really something to behold, in particular the number of volunteers who give their time.So, I can't tell you whether that—. It sounds like a good idea to put the narrow-gauge and the standard-gauge railways together in a promotional package. There may be some sensitivities aroundthat, but that is something that we can perhaps look at once this emergency has quieteneddown.

Thank you very much, Minister.

3. Topical Questions

Item 3 on the agenda this afternoon is topical questions and the topical question this afternoon is to be asked by Alun Davies and answered by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales. Alun Davies.

Support for Business

Alun Davies AC: 1. Will the Minister make a statement in response to the UK Government’s announcement on support for business and the economy made on 17 March 2020? 408

Ken Skates AC: Yes, of course. I welcomed the Chancellor's announcement, but clearly more needs to be done in the coming days, particularly to support businesses with wage costs and financial support for employees who've been laid off. Now, the Welsh Government will be making an announcement later this afternoon regarding matching in full the grants to small businesses in England as well as providing business rate relief for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses. However, Dirprwy Lywydd, there is a significant shortfall of hundreds of millions of pounds between the Barnett consequential we have received and the cost of matching all aspects of the Chancellor's package for English businesses, and we expect the UK Government to fill this gap.

Alun Davies AC: I'm grateful to the Minister for that answer, and I think all of us welcomed the fact that the United Kingdom Government has woken up to the crisis facing many people across the country. Members will be aware that it's over a decade now since we bailed out the banks—now it's time to support our people. Many of us feel that the Chancellor, in his statement yesterday, failed in three ways. First of all, the Chancellor's statement did not look at the impact that this is having on people and families. I've been contacted by many people who are self-employed and running small businesses, all of whom are frightened because of the virus circulating in our community, but also frightened because they may well be losing their jobs and losing their businesses. It is incumbent upon any Government to respond fully to the crisis facing people in our communities today, and the Government in the United Kingdom has not recognised this impact on small businesses and the self-employed.
It has also, Deputy Presiding Officer, failed to recognise the importance of small businesses to the economy of Wales. It has failed to recognise the importance of these businesses to our wider economy and to our communities. The Minister has already stated in his answer that Barnett will not work. It has to be time now for Barnett to be put away and for a new needs-based formula to provide the full support that Wales needs and deserves.
Finally, Minister, can I ask you about the way in which the United Kingdom Government is working at the moment? This is a crisis across the United Kingdom and across the world, but the United Kingdom seems interested only in one nation in the United Kingdom and not in the four nations of the United Kingdom. The Welsh Ministers, I am aware, have offered the United Kingdom Government private meetings and opportunities to work together to deliver the support that all businesses across the UK need. Isn't it time that the UK governed for the whole of the United Kingdom and ensured that the whole of the United Kingdom gets the support that businesses, the self-employed and our communities require, need and deserve?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Alun Davies for his questions? This institution was set up to address Welsh problems, but, of course, we live in exceptional times. Coronavirus is a global problem and requires both a global response but also a very strong UK response. It requires a response in which all four nations are contributing to the solutions, and I was pleased this morning to take part in what I hope will be a weekly round of quadrilateral discussions with my counterparts across the UK, including with Ministers at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
I have to say a number of things about the announcement that was made yesterday. Far more does need to be done. We were informed this morning that further statements will be made. I know that the Prime Minister has made a statement this afternoon concerning people who rent properties who, up until today, were extraordinarily anxious about the position that they would find themselves in. I hope that further support will be forthcoming for people who face much reduced wages or, indeed, the loss of wages entirely. In this regard, I spoke with the Secretary of State yesterday in BEIS and, as part of the quadrilateral discussions today, we raised the prospect of a wage subsidy scheme being rolled out by the UK Government. This would not be without precedent. We've seen this adopted in many other countries around the world, and I was told that that very proposal would be considered. I hope that an announcement will be made by the UK Government in the coming days.
It will have to be matched, of course, with a huge fiscal package of support. The Office for Budget Responsibility, in the last 24 hours, have said that a blunderbuss approach must be taken by the Government, and that means that rather than spend about 1.5 per cent of GDP in bolstering the economy, more like 5 per cent should be invested in it, and that's precisely what I hope the UK Government will reflect on as it does devise—as I am hoping it will do—a strong interventionist policy in terms of wage support. In terms of the £330 billion that was announced, that was largely focused on businesses that could afford to borrow, but we know that there are many businesses that are simply not in that position right now and need help immediately.
Now, I've asked for clarity as to what the gap in the proposals for England may be. Twenty billion pounds has been allocated to that set of proposals, but we are not entirely sure whether the proposals can be afforded in full with the £20 billion that has been allocated to it. My understanding is that grants in England will not be available until April. They will be administered by local authorities. We are looking here in Wales at how we can get money out of the door sooner, because there is an urgent need to support small and medium-sized enterprises and indeed larger businesses as well right now.

Russell George AC: Can I thank you for your balanced answer, I think, to Alun Davies? And Alun Davies's question—I'm really disappointed by the tone of his approach because, as I said yesterday, Minister, I want to work with you and the Government, with scrutiny but also in a balanced way and with co-operation, at this unprecedented time. We had the Chancellor yesterday, on top of last week's budget, announcing £330 billion, an unprecedented amount, with a Barnett consequential of £1.1 billion, with more money—more money—coming as needed as well. So, let's keep that in the context that it's meant to be. [Interruption.] Please—

Just carry on.

Russell George AC: But I'm just so frustrated that we're not working on a consensual basis, Deputy Presiding Officer. Come on, let's pull together at this particular time. I'm going to try now and go through my questions in a measured way.
Yesterday, Minister, the Government obviously announced additional measures for business support. You said you will, I think, make an announcement later today, which I very, very much welcome because I do think that needs to be as quick as possible. I appreciate officials have got to work through those consequentials and details, but certainly the UK Government for England announced, regardless of the rateable value, that all businesses—whether they're pubs, whether they're music venues or theatres or restaurants—will have rate relief from 1 April completely. And I would hope, of course, that the Welsh Government can do the same here in Wales as soon as possible, and I think that it is important that that happens quickly because if that doesn't happen, then our inboxes fill up, and extra pressure is put on Business Wales with businesses asking the questions. So, it's really important that that happens as soon as possible. Of course, there's also the grant that's available that the UK Government announced—not a loan but a grant available to businesses, up from £3,000 to £10,000, and there will obviously be an area there for the Welsh Government to come forward with its own scheme. Again, I very much welcome the fact that you're able to do that, and if you're able to do that sooner than the UK Government is doing that in England for Welsh businesses, then that's great and you'll have my full support in that as well.
In regard to Business Wales, you mentioned yesterday that that is the one-stop shop, and I very much welcome that, and you mentioned that it has got capacity, or has indicated that. I have to say that I've been pointing businesses to that line and they've been getting back to me to say that they've been for two days trying to get through. I've tried myself to contact Business Wales—I was in a queue for 30 minutes and at that point I gave up. That's not a criticism, that's to let you know what's going on in these unprecedented times, and also, the options available weren't relevant, I don't think, for the current crisis that we're in. There was no mention of the current position. Option 1 is, you know, 'Do you want to start a new business? Press 1.' I pressed the fifth option, which is 'other', so I do think that that needs to be looked at to make sure that businesses get through to speak to someone as soon as possible, as much as that can possibly be.
There's also the issue, when it does come to business rates, of whether local authorities have sent out demands or not yet. But, of course, if that can be stopped or if businesses can universally be told, 'You will not be paying business rates', that will again take off pressure. There's an admin issue here for local authorities, where a lot of resource and time could be saved if we can work through some of these issues as quickly as possible before the beginning of the new financial year.
And finally, the British Business Bank also provides funds, and I would just like some clarity, if possible—if not now then through a statement, perhaps, for Members—that the British development bank, for example, is providing funding to the whole of the UK for business support, and how does that correlate with the Development Bank of Wales? Can Welsh businesses go through both banks? And with that consequential, how does that work in terms of some areas of business support not coming through the Welsh Government, but coming through other means as well? It would be useful to understand that so that we can correctly give the right information to businesses as well. I remain committed to working with you on a non-partisan basis to help businesses across Wales, Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Russell George for his questions? There were a number of areas and subjects that he's raised this afternoon.
First of all, can I say with regard to Business Wales—Business Wales are obviously being inundated with calls right now? I was informed just this morning that additional staff have been moved away from their regular jobs, their regular functions, in order to answer the huge number of calls that are being made tothat particular service. I also raised the issue of the voice messaging and the referral of people through the voicemail system. That is being addressed as we speak. I would suggest to businesses as a first port of call to visit the website and the information that's provided on it. There is also the possibility to log a call back if businesses are not able to wait more than five, 10, or, indeed, 30 minutes, and I do recognise—I do recognise—that there is enormous pressure there with Business Wales. We're looking at every opportunity to further bolster the number of people that are advising businesses within Business Wales.
In terms of notices for business rates, if they can be stopped, obviously they will be, but if they can't be and they've already been issued, then further notices will be going out to inform businesses that they will have zero to pay. In terms of the £330 billion that was announced, it is purely in loans at the moment and we require an additional sum of money—a very, very significant sum indeed—to be made available to cover the fixed costs of businesses as they try to struggle through this period or if they decide to hibernate as they cease operation for a temporary period of time. That money should be used to ensure that there is an income for people who are affected by coronavirus and who are in work but also to retain those valuable workers on the books of those businesses that are affected. It's absolutely vital that action is taken in that regard.
I know that the Finance Minister is speaking this afternoon with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and Rebecca Evans will be making a very powerful case for that gap that I mentioned to be filled. It's absolutely essential if we are to roll out precisely the same level of support in terms of NDR for the sectors that were announced yesterday by the Chancellor. There are enormous costs, obviously, associated with supporting chain supermarkets, chain superstores and chain hotels, but, in the very least, we look to the opportunity of making discretionary support available to councils, recognising that in many parts of Wales independent large businesses, such as those hotels in many of our communities, can provide invaluable support to the supply chain.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I thank the Minister for his response to Alun Davies's question. I think it is undoubtedly true that because of the structure of our economy we will need a higher level of support for business, potentially, and I'm encouraged by what the Minister says that he's getting some positive response from the UK Government to acknowledge that. I'm sure that we can have every faith in the finance Minister that she'll be making that case really, really powerfully, because we do have a very different structure. We're more dependent on tourism, for example, in some communities. We have still—thank goodness—more manufacturing capacity than many other parts of the UK, but, again, those businesses may be under threat. And we also have—and this is my first question to the Minister—an awful lot of micro businesses, as my colleague, Leanne Wood, was mentioning yesterday, an awful lot of people who are one-person organisations or one-or-two-people organisations. I think it's very important, as we move forward, that any package of business support can be really easily and effectively passed on to them. The fact that there'll be earlier access to sick pay is not going to solve the problem for people who are self-isolating not because they're ill but because somebody else is, and it certainly isn't going to solve the problem for somebody who's not self-isolating but is just not having any business, if, for example, they're a builder and they would normally go into people's homes and they're just not getting any business coming through.
So, I'd like to hear a bit more from the Minister today about what his proposals are to ensure that that support can get to those micro businesses. I was going to raise the points about the access to the helpline that Russell George has already raised, but there's no need to repeat that. But I think it's particularly—. For those businesses it's particularly important that access to support is easy and that information is easy to get hold of, because they don't have big admin departments to back them up in those particular regards.
I was encouraged to hear what the Minister said about rate relief for some of our bigger tourism businesses. I'm thinking of organisations like the Harbourmaster Hotel in my region and the Llywydd's constituency, which is an independent Welsh-owned business, but, as the Minister's said, absolutely crucial in the supply chain in that area. It's a destination business that people come to that town to visit, to stay in, to use the excellent restaurant, and we know we've got hundreds of those all over Wales. So, if I can ask the Minister to keep that business rate relief under advisement and to look again at whetherwe can make a difference, potentially, between those locally owned businesses who we would want to be subsidising, if you like, and the big chains that we may or may not want to support. Because I certainly don't think that there would be any intention on the Minister's part for those businesses not to be supported.
And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd—I take it that this goes without saying—I hope that, in this very fast moving picture, the Minister will be able to keep us all informed about what's going on about the response from the Westminster Government. I hope that colleagues on the benches opposite will also support any representations that are being made to Ministers at the other end of the M4, because I'm sure that they do understand the different structure of our business. But the more that we are all informed about what's going on, the more we can share that information with concerned constituents, and the more that we can, as far as we can, operate as Team Wales. The Minister knows that he'll always get rigorous scrutiny from these benches and from the rest of the opposition, but, in these circumstances, where we can, we will want to work together.

Ken Skates AC: Well, can I thank Helen Mary Jones? Just as she was incredibly constructive and helpful yesterday, so too she is today. At risk of adding to the burden of my officials, I think it would be helpful, in light of what Helen Mary Jones has suggested, if I provide a weekly written statement concerning our engagement with the UK Government and other devolved nations, and the very latest in terms of interventions concerning the economy, and I'll endeavour to do just that.
In terms of the points raised concerning sole traders and microbusinesses, as I've said, later today we expect to be able to announce that we'll be matching the UK Government's offer of grants of £10,000 to all small businesses. That will include sole traders. Where sole traders and microbusinesses don't have premises, then they will need to rely on a wage subsidy scheme. That's why I think it's so important that as soon as possible the UK Government can develop a fair wage subsidy scheme for businesses of all sizes in order to ensure that businesses can either hibernate or fight through this particular crisis.
And then, thirdly, Helen Mary Jones raised the important point of just how significant independent hoteliers can be to many of our communities—independent large shops, as well, in many parts of Wales. I would say that discretionary rate relief could be available to support many, but if we really wish to match what the UK Government has offered to England, and if we wish to ensure that as many businesses as possible benefit from this, we need the UK Government to fill that huge gap of hundreds of millions of pounds.

Thank you. Joyce Watson.

Joyce Watson AC: Minister, I'm really pleased that this question has been put forward—and I thank Alun Davies for doing that—to give us an opportunity, and you an opportunity, to represent our areas. The Mid and West Wales economy does rely heavily on tourism and small businesses, but that, in turn, has a high percentage of part-time and zero-hours workforce to support it. I do welcome the announcement of the UK Government support in as far as it's gone, but I am concerned, and you've reiterated it here several times, that it is aimed at the bigger businesses and not necessarily going to support the multitude of small and medium enterprises that we have in Mid and West Wales.
But what I want to really focus on today is the workforce, and particularly statutory sick pay. Can you please tell me what discussions you've had with your counterpart in the UK to ensure that the part-time and zero-hours workers who don't currently qualify for SSP receive it? And will you urge the UK Government's Department for Work and Pensionsto pay that quickly to those who are on sick or who are into forced self-isolation at a rate that matches the real living wage? That, in turn, will help the families and the individuals survive this crisis, because it is, indeed, a crisis that they find themselves in, and not of their own making.
And I hope that you will urge the UK Government to remove the five-week wait for universal credit. I'm really assured to hear from the Tory benches here that they want to work with us and support us, and I hope that they will start writing to the Ministers in their Government, asking them for that statutory sick pay, and I look forward to copies of those letters.
Easter, we know, is coming. We know that, unfortunately, it isn't going to necessarily be the happy celebrations that we were all hoping for, but, nonetheless, I'm sure that everybody here will join me in hoping that everybody does have as peaceful and as good an Easter as they possibly can have.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Joyce Watson for her questions, and for championing the need to support people and businesses in Mid and West Wales, and, indeed, across the country? The question of statutory sick pay was raised today in a quadrilateral. It's been raised by the First Minister as well in his letter to the Chancellor dated 17 March, which I know has been circulated to Members. We hope that the Government will take action in the way that the Member has outlined.
I think it's important, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I just reflect on some other difficulties that individuals and small businesses are facing at the moment, particularly in the region that the Member represents. Those include those fixed costs that can amount to huge sums, including utility costs. I'm calling on utility companies to roll out a significant offer to individuals and businesses in terms of payment holidays, reflecting what banks have responsibly done in terms of offering mortgage repayment holidays. I think it's absolutely essential that everybody contributes to the effort to see people and businesses through this incredibly difficult period. And that includes utility companies doing what they can do as well.
Just one final point, Dirprwy Lywydd, and it's in regard to a question asked by Russell George. I was due to meet with the British development bank earlier this week. Unfortunately, due to the crisis, they were unable to meet. A discussion with them is being put into my diary, and I will report back to Members as soon as I can.

Andrew RT Davies AC: I fail to see, Minister, how the Welsh Government could have described the financial package that has been put in place to date as 'wholly inadequate'. Across this Chamber yesterday, Members stood shoulder to shoulder in the face of this virus that is going on. Four hundred and thirty billion pounds has been injected into the economy and will be injected into the economy—15 per cent of gross domestic product, that is. Not 1.5 per cent, not 5 per cent, but 15 per cent of GDP, that is.
And only—[Interruption.] Only yesterday, I pointed two things out to you, Minister: (1), in your statement, you didn't highlight the £100 billion of extra borrowing that the Chancellor had injected at the budget last week, and the Government was standing by 80 per cent of the loans that were underwritten by that £100 billion. Secondly, I asked you specifically around the resources of Business Wales—whether they'd be able to deal with queries. That wasn't a criticism; that was trying to seek reassurance, given the tidal wave of queries—and rightly so—that will be coming forward from business.
Only today, we have heard from my own spokesman here saying that messaging on the system is still failing to address these concerns, and people are frustrated, to say the least, and angry at worst. Can you give us reassurance that the resources are being made available? You have alluded to that fact, but can you give us an idea of how much more resource has been released to Business Wales in the number of operators that will be available and the type of information they will be able to give to businesses who are questioning, and legitimately questioning, where they need to go to seek this help? I appreciate it is a crisis we are in, but, if you are pointing people in a direction, we need to point them in the right direction to seek the support they can get.
I would implore you, when you do put the press releases out, you put press releases out that are accurate. The press release that went out about the UK Government'sfinancial aid last night was completely inaccurate from the Welsh Government.

Ken Skates AC: The reason that I believe it was described as 'wholly inadequate' is because there is a gap of hundreds of millions of pounds. It's an inescapable fact. And I don't mean this as a criticism; it may well be down to the UK Government not engaging with us in terms of the planning of the intervention. That, I hope, will be addressed as we work through this crisis, because I want to work alongside the UK Government as well, as I think I have done over many years.
But the reason that it is inadequate is because the shape of the Welsh economy is different to that of England, and it hasn't been recognised within the Barnett formula, as Alun Davies has already highlighted. That needs to be addressed urgently, because what we can't have—. Look, drop the politics aside—what we can't have is an announcement being made in England regarding schemes that can be afforded within a certain declared envelope, and then us being asked to do exactly the same here in the absence of the money to actually do it. That is the challenge that we face if the difference in the Welsh and English economies is not recognised. And indeed, it's not just us, Scotland faces problems too, Northern Ireland as well. This was the point of the discussion today, and I have to say that that discussion was very collegiate. I think that the challenge was recognised by colleagues in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
Now, what we need to do is ensure that that challenge is addressed, and that the adequate resource that we're calling for comes to Wales so that we can support Welsh businesses equally. Because what I've been saying to businesses, and what businesses have been saying to me, is if we can at all avoid divergence, then let's avoid divergence. Whether you're based in London or Llandaff, you wish to know in the clearest terms what support is available, and it should be consistent in my view. That's why I'm determined to make sure, as is the Finance Minister and others, that the UK Government works with us to address the shortcomings in the current financial arrangements.
I do take the point as well in terms of the availability of human resource within Business Wales. These are exceptional times and we are trying to steer as many members of staff as possible to front-line services. I will be providing further updates to Members in regard to the Business Wales service, because it's my view that we will have to pull in now additional human resources from other agencies to support Business Wales, and that is because of the exceptional demand for support. I'm also determined to ensure that local government assists Business Wales by offering a seamless and consistent advisory service that steers businesses and signposts businesses if necessary to UK Government agencies and support services as well. Because what a business wants more than anything is clear, simple, consistent messaging and information that can be accessed through one point of contact, and that's precisely what we are striving to achieve with Business Wales.

Lynne Neagle AC: It is undoubtedly the case that these are times that are really worrying for families, such as none of us have ever seen in our lifetime. I very much look forward to hearing the detail of the statement that you said you'll be issuing later.
I wanted to ask specifically, though, about the automotive sector. As you'll be aware, I've got a lot of people employed in the automotive sector in Torfaen. Quite a number of companies across the world in automotive have basically stopped working, and that is a huge concern for the large employers in Torfaen. Can I ask what discussions you've had with the automotive sector and whether you can look very specifically at their needs?
Obviously, these are not people who can work from home. They are hugely competitive industries, and if we lose them then there's a very significant risk that there will be no bringing that back from the brink. So, can I ask you what specific measures you're looking at to address the concerns of all the members of staff working in the automotive sector in Torfaen?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Lynne Neagle for her question? I'd agree entirely with her. I've never, ever experienced an episode of such intense anxiety and uncertainty for families and businesses across our country, and indeed around the world. It demonstrates why, at every opportunity, we need to work as closely as possible as Governments, as political parties as well, to overcome the challenges that we face.
Lynne Neagle points to one specific part of the economy that is facing very grave difficulties right now: the automotive sector. It was already facing challenges as a consequence of the accelerated shift towards zero emissions and the advent of self-drive vehicles. This now, and of course on top of the uncertainty of Brexit, poses an incredible challenge that will be difficult to overcome, but I am of the belief that the sector is strong and robust and will overcome it, but it will require assistance.
Many Members will have seen news just in the last 24 hours of the decision taken by Toyota, very similar to those that Lynne Neagle highlighted in her question. This follows on the back of the decision made over Vauxhall's operations in the UK, and there are 400 or so people who live in Wales who are employed at the Ellesmere Port site. So, a vast number of people in the Welsh workforce will be affected by decisions taken within the automotive sector.
We are in daily dialogue with the Welsh automotive forum, which is the representative body of the automotive sector, and the message that we are receiving from them is that the automotive sector, like many business sectors in the Welsh economy, simply cannot continue if they require a huge degree of people to work from home. You have to actually be on site, making things, and therefore hibernation may be the only option.
In order to ensure that businesses come out of hibernation as soon as possible and get people back to work, rather than fall over during this period, a wage-subsidy scheme is required. And it's not just required for the businesses themselves, it's also required for individuals to guarantee their welfare throughout this period.

Thank you, Minister.

4. Motion to suspend Standing Orders

The next item is a motion to suspend Standing Orders 11.16 and 12.20 to allow the next items of business to be debated. I call on a member of Business Committee to move the motion—Llywydd.

Motion NNDM7309 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Orders 33.6 and 33.8:
Suspends Standing Order 12.20(i) and that part of Standing Order 11.16 that requires the weekly announcement under Standing Order 11.11 to constitute the timetable for business in Plenary for the following week, to allow NNDM7310, NNDM7311, NNDM7312 and NNDM7313 to be considered in Plenary on Wednesday, 18 March 2020.

Motion moved.

Formally.

The proposal is to suspend the Standing Orders. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, that motion is agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

5. Motion to amend Standing Orders

Item 5 on the agenda is the motion to amend Standing Orders: changes resulting from the change of the name of the institution. I call again on a member of Business Committee to move the motion—Llywydd.

Motion NNDM7310 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:
1. Considers the Report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Changes resulting from the change of the name of the institution’ laid in the Table Office on 18 March 2020.
2. Approves the proposal to amend Standing Orders, as set out in Annex A of the Report of the Business Committee.
3. Notes that these changes will come into effect on 6 May 2020.

Motion moved.

Formally.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree to amend the Standing Orders. Does any Member object? Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6. Motion to alter the name of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform to the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform

Item 6 is the motion to alter the name of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform to the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform. Again, I call on a member of Business Committee to move the motion—Llywydd.

Motion NNDM7311 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3:
1. Agrees to alter the name of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform to the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform.
2. Notes that this change will come into effect on 6 May 2020.

Motion moved.

Formally.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed, again in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Motion to amend Standing Orders

Item 7 is motion to amend Standing Orders: changes related to Assembly business in extraordinary circumstances. I call on a member of Business Committee to move the motion—Llywydd.

Motion NNDM7312 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:
1. Considers the report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Temporary Standing Orders in response to Coronavirus (Covid-19)’ laid in the Table Office on 18 March 2020.
2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Orders, as set out in Annex A of the report of the Business Committee.
3. Notes that these changes are temporary, and will cease to have effect on the dissolution of this Assembly.

Motion moved.

Formally, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move what's before us now. These changes to the Standing Orders are necessary in order to allow the Assembly to continue with its work as best it can in unprecedented circumstances.
First of all, the Standing Orders relating to publicly meeting. We'll continue to broadcast the Plenary to the public in accordance with Standing Order 12.1, but the change to the Standing Order before us means that the gallery doesn't need to stay open for reasons of public health and safety. If the extraordinary circumstance did arise where it wasn't possible to broadcast as well, the Plenary would be able to proceed without that.
Secondly, the Business Committee has also agreed to change the Standing Orders in order to allow a temporary Chair to chair a Plenary with all the powers of the Presiding Officer when the Llywydd or the Deputy Presiding Officer can't come to the Assembly. There is also a provision to elect a designated temporary Presiding Officer if the Llywydd and the Deputy Presiding Officer aren't in a position to operate at all. If these Standing Orders are approved, then the Assembly will be asked to elect David Melding to those two roles.
For information, I would like to update and add a few issues of interest to the Members that stem from an urgent meeting of the Business Committee this morning. It was agreed that Plenary will meet on one day only next week, namely Wednesday, with a full session in the morning and the afternoon. This will allow questions to the First Minister to go on as usual, and for the Ministers to make statements in order to update us on the latest impact of the coronavirus on their policy areas, and also any other legislative issues. That will restrict the time that Members and staff will have to spend in the Senedd.
Finally, the Business Committee is discussing ways to allow the Assembly to meet and to continue with our work over the recess period and beyond, in order to ensure that the Government can update Members on coronavirus issues, and that the opposition parties can have an opportunity to scrutinise in a timely and appropriate fashion, and allow backbench Members in the same way.
These are extreme circumstances, and I hope that the Assembly will support these changes to the Standing Orders, which are going to reflect that and allow us to continue with our work in the most appropriate fashion at this time. [Interruption.] Yes, of course.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I fully understand the logic and argument you're putting forward, but in business questions yesterday I did press the leader of the house about seeking a statement from the environment Minister on agricultural matters and restrictions in the agricultural sector. Now we're cut down to one day—I appreciate that statement might come through on Wednesday, but I heard the Minister for the economy say that he would be prepared to make written statements available to Members, constantly updating them. Could I, through you, seek the support that Members could be updated by each Minister covering their portfolios regularly on a rapidly changing situation that has dramatic implications for areas of concern for our constituents?

The business that was tabled for next Tuesday—that includes a range of statements and, if I recall correctly, a statement by the environment Minister is one of those in the context of coronavirus—all of those statements will be held and take place on the Wednesday. So, nothing will have changed from the business statement that you've referred to. You've had the opportunity to raise some additional issues there; they are not directly issues for me as a Llywydd, but fortunately the business manager of the Government and the Trefnydd has heard the point.

So, I encourage Members to support these motions, these amendments to our Standing Orders.

Hefin David AC: Will you take an intervention before you sit down?

You caught me just in time, in exceptional circumstances. I won't sit down quickly.

Hefin David AC: You know the rules better than I do. Just with regard to committees, we've got a Children, Young People and Education Committee tomorrow where the education Minister is giving evidence, which I find very useful. What are the longer terms plans for committees? I don't think you mentioned committees in your statement.

The Business Committee is looking at a variety of options that we will consider over the next few days in order to ensure that that ongoing scrutiny of Government and ongoing Government business is able to continue in the context of coronavirus. The Business Committee has already taken the decision that it is matters relating to coronavirus that now become the imperative of both the Government and the Assembly in our scrutiny of Government actions.

Alun Davies AC: Will you take an intervention on that subject?

Yes.

Alun Davies AC: Presiding Officer, I'm grateful to you, and I know I'm testing everybody in this. The matter we discussed under the topical question is a matter of grave public significance, because it is about the resources and how the resources are allocated both to the Welsh Government and how the Welsh Government manages those resources at a time of crisis. It is essential that our committees are able to meet wherever possible to ensure that there is scrutiny of these matters, even in an emergency situation, so that we're able to guarantee and to say to the people of this country that we are ensuring and doing all that we can to ensure that they and my constituents are treated in the same way as the Chancellor of the Exchequer's constituents. So, the point that my colleague has made about committees is a very important point, and one where I think there might be broad support across the Chamber.

I think we have to strike the right balance here. There are a number of committee Chairs here at this point. The decision was that matters relating to coronavirus are the matters for our immediate concern over the next few weeks and months. We will give some further thought, reflecting on the two contributions here in terms of committee work. The Business Committee will look at what is the right mechanism for next week's business, but in particular through the recess period and beyond, to enable Government to be held to account and backbenchers and opposition parties to be able to scrutinise the decisions of the Government. I've had discussions with the Government; the Government wants to be scrutinised on its decisions and is keen for the democratic process to enable that to happen. So, thank you for the points you've made. I haven't yet quite sat down, but I will do so now, and hope that you support the changes to Standing Orders.

Thank you. I have no speakers in the debate. Therefore, the proposal is to amend Standing Orders. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. Motion to Elect an Acting Chair and a designated Temporary Presiding Officer

Item 8 on the agenda is the motion to elect an acting Chair and designated temporary Presiding Officer, and I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion to elect David Melding to those roles—Llywydd.

Motion NNDM7313 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. In accordance with Standing Order 6.24D, elects David Melding as Acting Chair under the terms specified under Standing Order 6.24E.
2. In accordance with Standing Order 6.24A, elects David Melding as the designated Temporary Presiding Officer.

Motion moved.

Formally.

The proposal is to elect an acting Chair and designated temporary Presiding Officer: David Melding. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, that motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

All other business has been postponed or suspended. Therefore, that brings today's proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 15:30.

QNR

Questions to the Minister for Education

Caroline Jones: How is the Welsh Government ensuring that the education system is equipping young people with necessary life skills?

Kirsty Williams: With the four purposes at its heart, our new curriculum will provide learners with the life skills necessary to be healthy, ethical and engaged citizens. The curriculum's integral skills will help equip them to meet life challenges, adapt to change and apply new learning and skills throughout their lives.